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	<title>Comments on: 100K House Budget Review &#8211; Our Biggest Meeting to Date</title>
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	<description>All things modern, affordable and green</description>
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		<title>By: 100K Budget Update - Time to Make Final Cuts &#124; 100khouse.com</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-1091</link>
		<dc:creator>100K Budget Update - Time to Make Final Cuts &#124; 100khouse.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-1091</guid>
		<description>[...] construction budget and make our final cuts to try and reach our $100,000 target. Our last major post on the budget was all the way back in February. Scott at Build It Green Philly (aka Level 5 Construction) sent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] construction budget and make our final cuts to try and reach our $100,000 target. Our last major post on the budget was all the way back in February. Scott at Build It Green Philly (aka Level 5 Construction) sent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-1072</link>
		<dc:creator>tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I may be missing an updated budget post by commenting on this older one, sorry if so. Given resale and owner environment, I just wanted to caution on removing things like 2nd bathrooms/half baths and patio/deck on second floor. And I also think that the fundamental 100K foundation needs to be modular enough so that over time, the owner could go further...make the roof green, add other green features. And so given budget is certainly a honorable constraint with this project, I&#039;m wondering if you&#039;ve done research into salvageable materials...whether that&#039;s used energy star appliances or re-purposed industrial materials. Speaking for myself, I&#039;d be cool with a used fridge if it meant I could have a patio/deck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be missing an updated budget post by commenting on this older one, sorry if so. Given resale and owner environment, I just wanted to caution on removing things like 2nd bathrooms/half baths and patio/deck on second floor. And I also think that the fundamental 100K foundation needs to be modular enough so that over time, the owner could go further&#8230;make the roof green, add other green features. And so given budget is certainly a honorable constraint with this project, I&#8217;m wondering if you&#8217;ve done research into salvageable materials&#8230;whether that&#8217;s used energy star appliances or re-purposed industrial materials. Speaking for myself, I&#8217;d be cool with a used fridge if it meant I could have a patio/deck.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 14:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-739</guid>
		<description>Noticed the effort to look at costs but have not looked at your whole plans (time is tight now).  Has anyone looked at ICF&#039;s?  ICFs and SIPs in combination seem to reduce my footing materials requirments by a third, and my footer/crawl space/basement wall timeline by half.  The additional cost of the forms seems about equal to the savings in concrete, and leaves reduced labor costs as savings for us (tying rebar is pretty much eliminated).  Noticed the mention of SIPs in the project.  We are doing a single story passive solar &quot;test&quot; addition with a green screen element in Media PA using SIPs and ICFs.  We have a client who wants to build a full SIPs building in the next few years and we wanted some experience with both building with them, and living with them, so the addition is going on our &quot;green&quot; &quot;test bed&quot; house which is a 1400 sq foot 1926 twin which has been rehabbed as 2 ea 1 br apts and has been sealed, insulated to R-50 in the roof, and sports an assortment of LED bulbs we are evaluating and a collection of 2010 standard appliances too.  After Sips this summer, we install Geo in spring 2009 and 6K PV to feed it in late 2009.  I commiserate with you about standing seam:  it is hard to fit into an affordable model, though it is an attractive design element, can last a long time, and, can reduce framing member sizes due to its light weight.  Best wishes to you....we follow it as time allows.  Our site goes up June 1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noticed the effort to look at costs but have not looked at your whole plans (time is tight now).  Has anyone looked at ICF&#8217;s?  ICFs and SIPs in combination seem to reduce my footing materials requirments by a third, and my footer/crawl space/basement wall timeline by half.  The additional cost of the forms seems about equal to the savings in concrete, and leaves reduced labor costs as savings for us (tying rebar is pretty much eliminated).  Noticed the mention of SIPs in the project.  We are doing a single story passive solar &#8220;test&#8221; addition with a green screen element in Media PA using SIPs and ICFs.  We have a client who wants to build a full SIPs building in the next few years and we wanted some experience with both building with them, and living with them, so the addition is going on our &#8220;green&#8221; &#8220;test bed&#8221; house which is a 1400 sq foot 1926 twin which has been rehabbed as 2 ea 1 br apts and has been sealed, insulated to R-50 in the roof, and sports an assortment of LED bulbs we are evaluating and a collection of 2010 standard appliances too.  After Sips this summer, we install Geo in spring 2009 and 6K PV to feed it in late 2009.  I commiserate with you about standing seam:  it is hard to fit into an affordable model, though it is an attractive design element, can last a long time, and, can reduce framing member sizes due to its light weight.  Best wishes to you&#8230;.we follow it as time allows.  Our site goes up June 1</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-604</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-604</guid>
		<description>Chad,

I used SIPs for the roof system and even the basement... It did not appear to me that your plans included a SIP roof, however if it does you can save $ by staying with a conventional roof system. Then, after the drywall is up, shoot a 1&quot; layer of foam to seal, topped with celulose a dozen + inches. Same or better than SIP roof sys and much lower cost. I heat my house with forced air Lifebreath system charged with my Rennai hot water heater. Best of luck...

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>I used SIPs for the roof system and even the basement&#8230; It did not appear to me that your plans included a SIP roof, however if it does you can save $ by staying with a conventional roof system. Then, after the drywall is up, shoot a 1&#8243; layer of foam to seal, topped with celulose a dozen + inches. Same or better than SIP roof sys and much lower cost. I heat my house with forced air Lifebreath system charged with my Rennai hot water heater. Best of luck&#8230;</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>By: chad</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-588</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

Thanks for the encouragement. I did actually find one person who built with SIPs just down the road from us and he was kind enough to let me pick his brain. We will try to get the electrician on site while the SIPs manufacturer is still here teaching us how to install them to help with the learning curve. We do also plan to use PEX for all plumbing and radiant.

Thanks,
Chad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Thanks for the encouragement. I did actually find one person who built with SIPs just down the road from us and he was kind enough to let me pick his brain. We will try to get the electrician on site while the SIPs manufacturer is still here teaching us how to install them to help with the learning curve. We do also plan to use PEX for all plumbing and radiant.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Chad</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-587</guid>
		<description>I built, largly myself, a SIP home finished about 1.5 yrs ago. Great energy choice but do not discount the other advantages of air infiltration and noise reduction. I am 80&#039; from the (subdivision type) road and can seldom hear the traffic. There must be someone local with SIP experience. Don&#039;t let the electricians bull you about how hard is is to wire SIPs, it is not true, it is just different, not harder. Many now have pre-installed boxes... To save $ further have you considered using PEX for all the plumbing and not just the radiant heat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I built, largly myself, a SIP home finished about 1.5 yrs ago. Great energy choice but do not discount the other advantages of air infiltration and noise reduction. I am 80&#8242; from the (subdivision type) road and can seldom hear the traffic. There must be someone local with SIP experience. Don&#8217;t let the electricians bull you about how hard is is to wire SIPs, it is not true, it is just different, not harder. Many now have pre-installed boxes&#8230; To save $ further have you considered using PEX for all the plumbing and not just the radiant heat.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-403</guid>
		<description>Chad,

Glad your conversation with Bruce was helpful. Petersburg Commons is a good project. I do think, however, that you could get away with exposed concrete floors especially since you are trying to look modern, you are in the city and the floors will be warm. You may need to polish them or stain them but it could definitly be done.

As for vinyl windows - yeh they are generally considered to be not green. The manufacturing and the potential off gasing of dioxins, the potential health risks - all add up to not a green product.

I love the idea off a green fence/wall. What a perfect idea for a sustainable house. Petersburg Commons was supposed to have greenery growing on the trelis at the front entrance. It appears as though that might have gotten cut out.

Oh and PEX is not PVC, it is polyethylene. Much greener in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>Glad your conversation with Bruce was helpful. Petersburg Commons is a good project. I do think, however, that you could get away with exposed concrete floors especially since you are trying to look modern, you are in the city and the floors will be warm. You may need to polish them or stain them but it could definitly be done.</p>
<p>As for vinyl windows &#8211; yeh they are generally considered to be not green. The manufacturing and the potential off gasing of dioxins, the potential health risks &#8211; all add up to not a green product.</p>
<p>I love the idea off a green fence/wall. What a perfect idea for a sustainable house. Petersburg Commons was supposed to have greenery growing on the trelis at the front entrance. It appears as though that might have gotten cut out.</p>
<p>Oh and PEX is not PVC, it is polyethylene. Much greener in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-402</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-402</guid>
		<description>Hey Chad,

Thanks for the thoughts on vinyl. I haven&#039;t done the kind of extensive research you have, but have always just &quot;intuited&quot; that vinyl wasn&#039;t the *best* choice.

The Marvin line recently saw a small price increase. Probably as a result of their increased popularity. And, they have a new website, which is much nicer. Anyway, the vendors I&#039;ve spoken with all say about the same thing: The Integrity line is a great value and rock solid. Consumer Reports recently reviewed them and rated them very favorably. And, like Chad says, they are great in terms of efficiency.

In case anyone is curious, the window package for our project runs a bit over $9,000. There are quite a number of windows. Good quality vinyl would save us about 20-30%. Inexpensive vinyls saves us almost 50%. Still, it&#039;s not apples to apples: vinyl windows are a definite aesthetic and (to a lesser degree) performance compromise.

I have seen some folks strike a compromise in the window department - putting nicer windows on the front of the house, and less expensive windows on the sides and/or back. This strategy might work with some homes, and not others.

Last, but not least, fiberglass - unlike vinyl - can be painted. So, if you are looking for something other than the &quot;white&quot; trim window, fiberglass is a good bet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Chad,</p>
<p>Thanks for the thoughts on vinyl. I haven&#8217;t done the kind of extensive research you have, but have always just &#8220;intuited&#8221; that vinyl wasn&#8217;t the *best* choice.</p>
<p>The Marvin line recently saw a small price increase. Probably as a result of their increased popularity. And, they have a new website, which is much nicer. Anyway, the vendors I&#8217;ve spoken with all say about the same thing: The Integrity line is a great value and rock solid. Consumer Reports recently reviewed them and rated them very favorably. And, like Chad says, they are great in terms of efficiency.</p>
<p>In case anyone is curious, the window package for our project runs a bit over $9,000. There are quite a number of windows. Good quality vinyl would save us about 20-30%. Inexpensive vinyls saves us almost 50%. Still, it&#8217;s not apples to apples: vinyl windows are a definite aesthetic and (to a lesser degree) performance compromise.</p>
<p>I have seen some folks strike a compromise in the window department &#8211; putting nicer windows on the front of the house, and less expensive windows on the sides and/or back. This strategy might work with some homes, and not others.</p>
<p>Last, but not least, fiberglass &#8211; unlike vinyl &#8211; can be painted. So, if you are looking for something other than the &#8220;white&#8221; trim window, fiberglass is a good bet.</p>
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		<title>By: chad</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 02:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-401</guid>
		<description>Upon closer examination it looks like the Marvin &quot;Integrity&quot; windows would be almost identical in price. I&#039;m sure Level 5 would be able to get the Marvin&#039;s at a larger discount than my original quote also. We&#039;ll have to take a closer look as it could end up saving us $1K or so. Every grand counts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon closer examination it looks like the Marvin &#8220;Integrity&#8221; windows would be almost identical in price. I&#8217;m sure Level 5 would be able to get the Marvin&#8217;s at a larger discount than my original quote also. We&#8217;ll have to take a closer look as it could end up saving us $1K or so. Every grand counts!</p>
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		<title>By: chad</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/comment-page-1/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 02:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://100khouse.com/2008/02/07/100k-house-budget-review-our-biggest-meeting-to-date/#comment-400</guid>
		<description>The fiberglass Marvin &quot;Integrity&quot; is a nice window due to its energy efficiency, low embodied energy and durability. I looked into them but they were pricier than the more stylish Pella windows ISA spec&#039;ed out.

Vinyl or PVC is one of those materials, like concrete, that is controversial in green building. Some think it is evil and others think its great. It&#039;s durable and lasts forever without needing to be repainted. It also has a bad history of causing harm to people who manufacture it. From a development standpoint it can also appear cheap to prospective buyers. 

The USGBC has awarded LEED points for avoiding the use of PVC in buildings in the past and has since undergone extensive investigation to judge the &quot;greeness&quot; of the product. The &quot;Blue Vinyl&quot; movie is also a point of controversy that sheds a bad light on PVC and all those manufacturing it or adorning their homes with it. It&#039;s worth watching if you haven&#039;t seen it.

I&#039;m not going to judge whether vinyl is evil or not now. I will say that I try to refrain from using it as much as possible though and the only PVC we will have in the 100K House will be in the PEX tubing for the radiant system and possibly other plumbing depending on the plumber&#039;s preference.

Scott did offer a line item for reducing cost by going with Vinyl and I think it was only $1K. Not worth it in my opinion. I was very pleased with the window and door portion of the estimate and see no reason to look for cost reductions with a different line or model of windows and doors at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fiberglass Marvin &#8220;Integrity&#8221; is a nice window due to its energy efficiency, low embodied energy and durability. I looked into them but they were pricier than the more stylish Pella windows ISA spec&#8217;ed out.</p>
<p>Vinyl or PVC is one of those materials, like concrete, that is controversial in green building. Some think it is evil and others think its great. It&#8217;s durable and lasts forever without needing to be repainted. It also has a bad history of causing harm to people who manufacture it. From a development standpoint it can also appear cheap to prospective buyers. </p>
<p>The USGBC has awarded LEED points for avoiding the use of PVC in buildings in the past and has since undergone extensive investigation to judge the &#8220;greeness&#8221; of the product. The &#8220;Blue Vinyl&#8221; movie is also a point of controversy that sheds a bad light on PVC and all those manufacturing it or adorning their homes with it. It&#8217;s worth watching if you haven&#8217;t seen it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to judge whether vinyl is evil or not now. I will say that I try to refrain from using it as much as possible though and the only PVC we will have in the 100K House will be in the PEX tubing for the radiant system and possibly other plumbing depending on the plumber&#8217;s preference.</p>
<p>Scott did offer a line item for reducing cost by going with Vinyl and I think it was only $1K. Not worth it in my opinion. I was very pleased with the window and door portion of the estimate and see no reason to look for cost reductions with a different line or model of windows and doors at this point.</p>
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