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	<title>Comments on: Premature Solarization &#8211; Solar Power Before Reducing Consumption</title>
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	<description>The former home of the 100k Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Save Nature And Your Capital Using Solar Energy &#124; Solar Cells For Sale</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-7497</link>
		<dc:creator>Save Nature And Your Capital Using Solar Energy &#124; Solar Cells For Sale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-7497</guid>
		<description>[...] on this blog as we will do our best to keep updating this blog with new info about relevant issues.Are you going to light your house with the solar power? In the case, you really do, it is compulsory...people used to deal with it in the past. So, we would like to inform you with the popular [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on this blog as we will do our best to keep updating this blog with new info about relevant issues.Are you going to light your house with the solar power? In the case, you really do, it is compulsory&#8230;people used to deal with it in the past. So, we would like to inform you with the popular [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On a Budget? These are your Top 10 Priorities When Building a Green Home &#171; Courtland Custom Homes Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-7403</link>
		<dc:creator>On a Budget? These are your Top 10 Priorities When Building a Green Home &#171; Courtland Custom Homes Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-7403</guid>
		<description>[...] smaller more efficient system can have a bigger impact on the overall use. In other words, we think prioritizing solar PV would be putting the cart before the horse. Along the same lines, we also try to focus on things that would be difficult to retrofit later. It [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] smaller more efficient system can have a bigger impact on the overall use. In other words, we think prioritizing solar PV would be putting the cart before the horse. Along the same lines, we also try to focus on things that would be difficult to retrofit later. It [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The (solar) power of art. &#171; Daily Design Idea</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-5796</link>
		<dc:creator>The (solar) power of art. &#171; Daily Design Idea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-5796</guid>
		<description>[...] panels glistening with sunlight in some desert-based technology lab. Or sometimes on a really cool roof on an eco-friendly home. It turns out there&#8217;s also some really cool solar-powered art [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] panels glistening with sunlight in some desert-based technology lab. Or sometimes on a really cool roof on an eco-friendly home. It turns out there&#8217;s also some really cool solar-powered art [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Our Top 10 Priorities When Building a Green Home on a Budget &#124; 100K House Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-5414</link>
		<dc:creator>Our Top 10 Priorities When Building a Green Home on a Budget &#124; 100K House Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-5414</guid>
		<description>[...] smaller more efficient system can have a bigger impact on the overall use. In other words, we think prioritizing solar PV would be putting the cart before the horse. Along the same lines, we also try to focus on things that would be difficult to retrofit later. It [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] smaller more efficient system can have a bigger impact on the overall use. In other words, we think prioritizing solar PV would be putting the cart before the horse. Along the same lines, we also try to focus on things that would be difficult to retrofit later. It [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Hajek</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-2407</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Hajek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-2407</guid>
		<description>*LOL*, Grant.  They&#039;d do it in a heartbeat.  ExxonMobil just posted yet another record year, so they don&#039;t lack for balls &#039;n gall.
I&#039;m just wondering when we&#039;ll all gather outside of their corp. headquarters with pitchforks and torches.....What a media orgy that&#039;d be....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*LOL*, Grant.  They&#8217;d do it in a heartbeat.  ExxonMobil just posted yet another record year, so they don&#8217;t lack for balls &#8216;n gall.<br />
I&#8217;m just wondering when we&#8217;ll all gather outside of their corp. headquarters with pitchforks and torches&#8230;..What a media orgy that&#8217;d be&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-2405</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-2405</guid>
		<description>As long as you are splitting hairs, hydropower is also solar power... 

And if you want to take an extreme to the point of absurdity, fossil fuels are also biologically stored solar energy -grin-. [I wonder if the Big Oil companies will have enough gall to ask Obama for subsidies on this basis...  Wait... I shouldn&#039;t be giving them such ideas.  They just might try, and Congress just might go along with it. -groan-]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as you are splitting hairs, hydropower is also solar power&#8230; </p>
<p>And if you want to take an extreme to the point of absurdity, fossil fuels are also biologically stored solar energy -grin-. [I wonder if the Big Oil companies will have enough gall to ask Obama for subsidies on this basis...  Wait... I shouldn't be giving them such ideas.  They just might try, and Congress just might go along with it. -groan-]</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Hajek</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-2404</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Hajek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-2404</guid>
		<description>You go, Marcus.  If there&#039;s any means to make wind (other than D.C. political hot air) create usable energy on every rooftop (yeah, I know it&#039;s not constant....every bit helps, though...), it&#039;s a windmill worth tilting. ;-)
I feel the same about PV installations.  Small, large, and everything in betwixt, total net energy just might start to make a dent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You go, Marcus.  If there&#8217;s any means to make wind (other than D.C. political hot air) create usable energy on every rooftop (yeah, I know it&#8217;s not constant&#8230;.every bit helps, though&#8230;), it&#8217;s a windmill worth tilting. <img src='http://www.100khouse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I feel the same about PV installations.  Small, large, and everything in betwixt, total net energy just might start to make a dent.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-2400</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-2400</guid>
		<description>I love your work, and your musings on the subject. I always try to be an advocate for the devil in these eco-subjects, because the religion has swept so many unintelligent people up along with naive children who now preach the cause with no real sense of the problem....depending on how you phrase &#039;the problem.&#039;

blathering aside, I read something interesting, as I have been trying to figure out a way to build my own wind turbine...for shits and giggles, mind you, not to save the planet. please. 

wind energy IS solar energy. the sun heats up parts of the planet, which makes air move, and then drop over cool parts of the planet, and voila... assuredly, this doesn&#039;t help statisticians break down things for clarity, but the way you said it &quot;the sun provides only 1%&quot; is not, then, entirely accurate.
...if only I could split atoms, like I can hairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your work, and your musings on the subject. I always try to be an advocate for the devil in these eco-subjects, because the religion has swept so many unintelligent people up along with naive children who now preach the cause with no real sense of the problem&#8230;.depending on how you phrase &#8216;the problem.&#8217;</p>
<p>blathering aside, I read something interesting, as I have been trying to figure out a way to build my own wind turbine&#8230;for shits and giggles, mind you, not to save the planet. please. </p>
<p>wind energy IS solar energy. the sun heats up parts of the planet, which makes air move, and then drop over cool parts of the planet, and voila&#8230; assuredly, this doesn&#8217;t help statisticians break down things for clarity, but the way you said it &#8220;the sun provides only 1%&#8221; is not, then, entirely accurate.<br />
&#8230;if only I could split atoms, like I can hairs.</p>
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		<title>By: tom toolbag</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-2389</link>
		<dc:creator>tom toolbag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-2389</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Nic about pv panels. If you do the math, it doesn&#039;t add up. Further thinking would make me think: does the amount of energy and/or resources to produce them outweigh the lifetime energy production? If it weren&#039;t for the rebates(subsidies) would the economics work.....no. Then I look farther and think that the high entry cost limits the entry to a certain group of people. Then the excess energy is sold to a power company at a fraction of it&#039;s true value, then that same energy is sold to their customers at the same rate as any other energy. To sum it up, taxpayer money subsidizes the purchase of pv panels and their energy output is sold for a fraction of it&#039;s worth to the power company, then the power company sells it a a premium to their customers. WTF? That looks like a different version of the corn ethanol scam.
  If you look at the need for energy, it can be broken down into a few categories. The term L.A.M.E. is a common way to do this.
   L.-lights
   A.-apliances
   M.E.-miscellanious electrical load
 If you break these down further,
  Lights- how many lights per/room, how many people in different rooms. How about a 1 or 2 lights on a track that can be moved to and lowered in the kitchen, to put the light where it is needed.
  Appliances- look at the big power eaters: fridge, freezer, washer, dryer, stove, microwave. Is a double-door fridge really needed? why not have a fridge custom made(yes, it can be and is done) that suits your needs. Is a clothes dryer really needed? Can clothes be hung to dry without a dryer? Is the savings in the price of food offset by the energy costs for a freezer?
  A dedicated system for the fridge, washer, and possibly for a furnace fan or boiler pump could and should be incorporated into a system because of the constant demand and the ability to keep the system basic. Battery technology has come a long way but still could improve. There is a company in Wisconsin that makes a zinc bromide battery that is pretty impressive, the name of the company is ZBB Energy Corporation.
  I don&#039;t want to imply that everyone should live like the &quot;Flinstones&quot;, but some actual forethought should be applied. Just look at the Amish communities, they seem to live rather well without a lot of energy consumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Nic about pv panels. If you do the math, it doesn&#8217;t add up. Further thinking would make me think: does the amount of energy and/or resources to produce them outweigh the lifetime energy production? If it weren&#8217;t for the rebates(subsidies) would the economics work&#8230;..no. Then I look farther and think that the high entry cost limits the entry to a certain group of people. Then the excess energy is sold to a power company at a fraction of it&#8217;s true value, then that same energy is sold to their customers at the same rate as any other energy. To sum it up, taxpayer money subsidizes the purchase of pv panels and their energy output is sold for a fraction of it&#8217;s worth to the power company, then the power company sells it a a premium to their customers. WTF? That looks like a different version of the corn ethanol scam.<br />
  If you look at the need for energy, it can be broken down into a few categories. The term L.A.M.E. is a common way to do this.<br />
   L.-lights<br />
   A.-apliances<br />
   M.E.-miscellanious electrical load<br />
 If you break these down further,<br />
  Lights- how many lights per/room, how many people in different rooms. How about a 1 or 2 lights on a track that can be moved to and lowered in the kitchen, to put the light where it is needed.<br />
  Appliances- look at the big power eaters: fridge, freezer, washer, dryer, stove, microwave. Is a double-door fridge really needed? why not have a fridge custom made(yes, it can be and is done) that suits your needs. Is a clothes dryer really needed? Can clothes be hung to dry without a dryer? Is the savings in the price of food offset by the energy costs for a freezer?<br />
  A dedicated system for the fridge, washer, and possibly for a furnace fan or boiler pump could and should be incorporated into a system because of the constant demand and the ability to keep the system basic. Battery technology has come a long way but still could improve. There is a company in Wisconsin that makes a zinc bromide battery that is pretty impressive, the name of the company is ZBB Energy Corporation.<br />
  I don&#8217;t want to imply that everyone should live like the &#8220;Flinstones&#8221;, but some actual forethought should be applied. Just look at the Amish communities, they seem to live rather well without a lot of energy consumption.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Hajek</title>
		<link>http://www.100khouse.com/2009/01/22/premature-solarization-solar-power-before-reducing-consumption/comment-page-1/#comment-2378</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Hajek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.100khouse.com/?p=384#comment-2378</guid>
		<description>Nic, &#039;parallel wiring&#039; wouldn&#039;t be necessary IF any electrician that was called upon to do any &#039;future work&#039; on a system Really Knew What He/She Was Doing.
I don&#039;t have that kind of faith....  I&#039;ve seen some real questionable work on existing wiring, and PV integration will be a challenge for a lot of contractors in the short term.
If the light circuits are initially set up for low-voltage, there shouldn&#039;t be a need to have a &#039;parallel&#039; in that case; just an educated buyer with a proper set of specs so they don&#039;t try to use the wrong bulbs.
DC circuits also tend to not require the same wire sizes that AC requires, but the NEC guidelines don&#039;t deal with DC to any great degree.  However, if one wires for AC, it would happily handle DC.
My rationale for parallel wiring on &#039;other&#039; circuits&#039; is a point that David made: &#039;legacy appliances&#039;.  It wouldn&#039;t be a problem (in fact, frighteningly easy) to switch an AC circuit to DC.  The inverse of that switch, made inadvertently, is what makes me feel that keeping the two apart makes sense and keeps the fire department and the legal types away.
And Grants&#039; right....if the grid goes down, your PV system could, at least, keep your lights on and some of the more desirable appliances up and running.  Battery back-ups don&#039;t have to be huge, either; just managed in a fashion that most people aren&#039;t used to doing.  Ask any RV owner about &#039;dry camping&#039; (No water or power hook-ups, just what&#039;s &#039;on-board&#039;; extra points for doing it without lighting up the generator....)
As for the local power &#039;authorities&#039; (a term that will become redundant as newer technologies leave them running to keep pace), they&#039;re just going to have to climb the same learning curve that inspectors are coping with in regards to SIPs&#039;, super-strength concretes, and all the other innovations that make us smile and their brows furrow.
Tsk. *smirk*

Where to park the batteries? Hmmmm...
An SIP &#039;doghouse&#039; off the back?  You&#039;ll need some room for the electronics anyway, and batteries like to stay warm....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nic, &#8216;parallel wiring&#8217; wouldn&#8217;t be necessary IF any electrician that was called upon to do any &#8216;future work&#8217; on a system Really Knew What He/She Was Doing.<br />
I don&#8217;t have that kind of faith&#8230;.  I&#8217;ve seen some real questionable work on existing wiring, and PV integration will be a challenge for a lot of contractors in the short term.<br />
If the light circuits are initially set up for low-voltage, there shouldn&#8217;t be a need to have a &#8216;parallel&#8217; in that case; just an educated buyer with a proper set of specs so they don&#8217;t try to use the wrong bulbs.<br />
DC circuits also tend to not require the same wire sizes that AC requires, but the NEC guidelines don&#8217;t deal with DC to any great degree.  However, if one wires for AC, it would happily handle DC.<br />
My rationale for parallel wiring on &#8216;other&#8217; circuits&#8217; is a point that David made: &#8216;legacy appliances&#8217;.  It wouldn&#8217;t be a problem (in fact, frighteningly easy) to switch an AC circuit to DC.  The inverse of that switch, made inadvertently, is what makes me feel that keeping the two apart makes sense and keeps the fire department and the legal types away.<br />
And Grants&#8217; right&#8230;.if the grid goes down, your PV system could, at least, keep your lights on and some of the more desirable appliances up and running.  Battery back-ups don&#8217;t have to be huge, either; just managed in a fashion that most people aren&#8217;t used to doing.  Ask any RV owner about &#8216;dry camping&#8217; (No water or power hook-ups, just what&#8217;s &#8216;on-board&#8217;; extra points for doing it without lighting up the generator&#8230;.)<br />
As for the local power &#8216;authorities&#8217; (a term that will become redundant as newer technologies leave them running to keep pace), they&#8217;re just going to have to climb the same learning curve that inspectors are coping with in regards to SIPs&#8217;, super-strength concretes, and all the other innovations that make us smile and their brows furrow.<br />
Tsk. *smirk*</p>
<p>Where to park the batteries? Hmmmm&#8230;<br />
An SIP &#8216;doghouse&#8217; off the back?  You&#8217;ll need some room for the electronics anyway, and batteries like to stay warm&#8230;.</p>
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