Comments on: LEED Landscaping Requirements

By: Fran

Fran — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:35:12 +0000

Chad,
I have a B.S. in Landscape Architecture and 22 years in the
Design / Build industry I would be happy to meet you No Charge
on Consult and No Charge on design for this site. I will enlighten you on
all Pros and Cons of all types of projects. Email me a phone
number so we may converse and set an appointment

By: chad

chad — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:12 +0000

Honestly, we don’t have enough experience with landscaping and landscaping designers yet for me to continue this discussion effectively. I am speaking on the few proposals I have seen, where the landscaping design fees are larger than the architectural design fees which just doesn’t make sense to me from a business standpoint.

In regards to the “1st try” I am referring to getting back an elaborate and expensive design when the initial request was for a simple layout with low-cost materials.

Please keep in mind that we are not comparing apples to apples in our landscape types. Take a look at our current renderings page on flickr for the layout and urban infill environment we are working with. We have no front yard on the corner house and the rear yards are roughly 20′ x 20′. This is much different than the suburban landscaping situations most are probably referring to.

Lastly, landscaping was certainly thought of from day one of the design, we just did it ourselves with the help of our architect. We haven’t written much about it, but you will see more in the future as we get to the actual work of installing it.

We’re not going to please everyone here with landscaping, but it is certainly our goal to go well above and beyond what other builders in Philly are doing. Most simple cement the entire back yard and call it a day. We plan to have at least three basic options in layouts for our clients in the future that could be further embellished upon if they so desire.

By: LEED 100K House, more! « The Whispering Crane Institute

LEED 100K House, more! « The Whispering Crane Institute — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:59:10 +0000

[...] Interesting commentary thread over at this website about building a $100,000 house, following LEED requirements, and the landscaping, or lack of landscaping. So a couple of folks have dropped over and added [...]

By: Rick Anderson

Rick Anderson — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:28:32 +0000

Chad;

In an above remark . . . . ” The design fees, materials spec’ed and labor to install are usually always way too high on the first try.

It’s easy to criticize, but if your solution is not feasible from a business standpoint, it’s not very constructive…”

Way too high on the 1st try. Does this imply that they are out of whack high, or just too high?

As too feasible; well you haven’t seen the work I and many of my colleagues do around the country when we work with “builders” to create a great site for the beginning as opposed to something getting tack on at the end.

I’m still perplexed by the “1st try” bit.

By: Melissa Langley

Melissa Langley — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:07:42 +0000

“The design fees, materials spec’ed and labor to install are usually always way too high on the first try.”

Chad, In my experience with builders it seems that they are learning the value of curb-appeal. Even on smaller projects, if they are building a spec house and the outside of their house looks better then the other houses in the neighborhood, their houses are getting more attention from the start. It may take away a little from the bottom line in the beginning, but if it keeps a house from sitting on the market for six months, they are coming out ahead in the end. Builders are coming around to this.

On a custom build it is a different story and usually where people are expecting “something for nothing” You have to put design fees, materials and labor into the mix. Would you ask your building architect to lower their fees? A landscape architect has gone to school just like a building architect and has the same student loans, computer software, etc. to pay for. In fact, as a landscape firm we have dumptrucks, bobcats, forklifts, and many other types of equiptment that has to be paid for in order to get the jobs done. Those big boulders don’t move themselves.

By: Melissa Langley

Melissa Langley — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:40:12 +0000

Why even TRY??? Well, it is our business…

Rick is so right on. Here’s one example: We do quite a bit a paver driveways. These ARE included in the appraisals. Many people PLAN on a paver driveway from the very beginning, but they wait until well more than half-way through the project to even talk to us. Then they want us to do something incredible with an afterthought amount of money. Although, I do have to say that many builders in my area are starting to change their attitude. The housing market in my area is not as bad as many places around the country, so builders are still in competition for buyers. So a strong land and hardscape is still a big draw.

By: chad

chad — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:32:14 +0000

Rick – Maybe you could propose a method that for-profit, residential developers could include landscaping design from the beginning? In our experience, their fees are too out of whack with the reality of a small scale residential construction project. The design fees, materials spec’ed and labor to install are usually always way too high on the first try.

It’s easy to criticize, but if your solution is not feasible from a business standpoint, it’s not very constructive…

By: Buckeye In Indy

Buckeye In Indy — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:02:55 +0000

Unbelievable rationalizations. Why even TRY???

By: Grant

Grant — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:43:36 +0000

Here is where my neighborhood HOA got one thing right… A professional landscaping plan must be submitted to and approved by the ARC. Even if the city gives you your Certificate of Occupancy, the landscape plan must be complete before move-in.
LEED also recognizes the integral role of landscaping with the building design.
I think it is understandable that banks don’t consider anything beyond the quality of the hardscape in the “collateral” value of a home. Appraisers do have some subjective leeway for “curb appeal” which affects marketability as compared to “comparables”
I think “durable” landscaping strategies like xeriscaping should get more credit for improving the reliable “collateral” of the home. Durable landscaping should be given comparable advantages as durable siding materials. Well planned landscape drainage carries added value just as a well designed moisture barrier on the envelope of the home does.
It is a shame that no one seems to recognize that proper soil amendments protect the investment in the softscape the same way that the investment in a quality roof protects the investment in the structure.
Unfortunately until appraisals more properly reflect such “durable” value of landscaping investments builders and homeowners often are left feeling like they can’t afford to do landscaping ‘ right”

By: Rick Anderson

Rick Anderson — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:52:33 +0000

Chad:

You are still under the old way of thought that the landscaping is separate from the house.

Well-planned and well-designed landscaping is part of the architecture of the house. Any hardscape that is connected(front walks, stoops, landings) adds immediate value.

It is the ability to make the house become part of it’s surroundings as opposed to “sitting” on top of the ground.

Your use of the word “skillfully” plays right into the construction of hardscape connected to the rear of the house. This part of a good overall landscape plan creates useful and inviting spaces for the homeowners to enjoy. Most builders account for a concrete pad or a undersized deck which add nothing of value in the long term, especially when they really do not adapt well to a overall ‘landscaped space’.

Rick